RE: To a Chinese learner, whether s/he will be confused? Anotherquestion, what's the role of Latin (especially for a Chinese)? Or whatwill Latin bring to a learner.
There are a lot of things in life that are best not measured in $ andhence there are those who advocate that any problem that can be fixedwith MONEY (alone) is really not a problem at all. There are at leastsome merits in such a view. For example, a good 30 to 50% of parentswant their kids to take up at least one music instrument. Would theworld witness 1 billion world-renowned musicians a generation from now?The possibility is next to 0. Take another example: what's the real useof having History, Geography, Physics, or Chemisty, etc. as part of theHigh School Curriculum anyway? Since most of us won't be PROFESSIONALhistorians, geologists, physicists or chemists. And even if some of usdo become historians, geologists..etc., they are LIKELY to find thattheir High School lessons were hopelessly over-simplified (more than afew viewpoints were at least debatable). Additionally, people often takejobs or change careers that had little or nothing to do with what theymajored in college. Is there then any basis for asserting that what theylearned or studied in school was a total waste?
Turning the table back to you on this issue, the question then becomeswhat kind of UTILITY were you expecting anyway? To be even more cynical,could anything ever become even more useless than all the energiesinvested in the series questions and answers in this post? While you mayindeed hate your Chinglish or small vocabulary or whatever, the thingcalled inertia can work wonders much more effectively than Curculio oranyone could ever imagine.
The study of Latin constitutes what's understood as part of thebroad-based education (there will always be a lot of people who areagainst "broad-based" education and instead focus on vocational aspectsof education only, but as you had experienced first hand,differentiation made too early doesn't not make your life happier orlife perspectives any more rewarding). Go back to one's roots orheritage is often heard but not practiced enough. On a worldwide basis,modern civilization and lifestyles have brought many ills, not the leastof which is the unfulfilledness in spirituality. And since we now livein a global village, cultual heritage is no longer confined to one'simmediate ancestors. Ancient Chinese civilization is now as Chinese asit is global, similarly, Greco-Roman heritage is no more foreign thanancient Japanese culture, despite of bigger geographical distance.
Many will continue to view Latin as a "luxury" item for spiritual growthbecause they have "heard" so many different and wrong things aboutLatin. Small surprise that some in the west would scare their owncompatriots that learning Chinese was tantamount to committing asuicide, because there were 50,000 or more Chinese characters tolearn--enough for several life-times! This 50K figure was probablyinferred from the total # of characters contained in Kangxi CharacterDictionary, never mind these advice-givers themselves knew next tonothing about Chinese but that didn't prevent them from giving their"learned" opinions for they knew it all! Did you personally know toomany native Chinese speakers who can read and write more than 10,000characters FLAWLESSLY? The same friendly warnings were generouslyshowered upon would-be learners of Latin in China! People are peopleEVERYWHERE.
So the approach?
1. Don't ask what Latin can do for you, ask what you can do to inheritthat common human experience from the West. Life is too short to performendless cost and benefit analyses and then choose to do nothing!
2. Don't broadcast your interest in Latin, the only predicable result:getting unwanted attention and in the end, you concede Latin is so"hard" that you have an inalienable RIGHT to fail--you fail because younever PLANNED for SUCCESS, not because something is too hard! In reallearning, one rarely needs a "group therapy" and "strategicalliance/partnership", so have some FAITH in yourself.
3. That being said, Latin is fundamentally different than either Chineseor English, it's a relational language. A knowledge of Latin opens upone's heart and mind further, polishes one's observational power onenever thought needed or existed. There are 300 to 400 different Latinprimers published in the United States alone since 1800 and almost eachone of them has a different perspective or teaching philosophy. Ofcourse, a full 70 to 80% more or less had equated the Latin languagewith Latin Grammar in very similar way that English teachers in Chinamore or less have chosen English grammar at the expense of the Englishlanguage and another 10 to 15% medicore or in trying to bridge the gapbetween 2 extreme views ended up rather unsuccessfully somewhere in themiddle. Again, people make similar mistakes in judgment calls--that'shardly anything new if you didn't realize by now. But with a total # ofLatin primers in the 300 to 400 range, even if the percentage forexcellent intros are small, that still leaves about a dozen or two inthe "good, very good or excellent" category. The task then is to choosethe most appropriate 1 or 2 or 3 according to one's background,maturity, preparedness etc. and GO WITH THE BOOK(S).
4. Once a decision is made, don't hesitate, spare no efforts, and thereis no need to be overly cautious about making mistakes--no one wouldever have learned how to walk/ride a bike if no trips or falls wereallowed--view mistakes as part of the normal learning curve. Latin mayhave a medium learning curve but the reward is also like no othersubject. How to put a $ in front of being able to read Aeneid or Cicero?If you figure out a way, feel free to teach the rest of us.
5. Timing is an all important factor too. All things equal, had you cometo bilinguist.com say 5 years ago, the inscriptions you may put infront of your W3 could be a lot shorter (and might as well be FASTINALENTE, or if 10 years ago, something as simple as VERITAS or GRAVITASwould suffice, or 5 years from now, it might well be lengthened to:MAGNA EST VERITAS ET PRAEVALEBIT and for learners of still more advancedage, dictionary reading might not be recommended at all). Why? Becauseone's mind is generally not as FLEXIBLE as 5 or 10 years ago but isnonetheless more flexible than 5 or 10 years from now and everything hasan expiration date, expressed or implied.
2007/12/4 10:31
curculio 于 2007年12月04日 10:46:52
請教學(xué)習拉丁文的幾件事
你好，
我算是你貼子的一位讀者，與你本不相識，也沒(méi)人引薦，但為了求知解惑也顧不得了。
在譯文里看到你談拉丁文的學(xué)習，有幾點(diǎn)疑惑，我想直接請教你是最高效的方式，望你能不辭辛勞，指點(diǎn)迷津。下面是具體問(wèn)題。
1、學(xué)習拉丁文的動(dòng)機是什么？是一種雅趣或是為了功用，抑或兼而有之？
2、除去明了一些字源的知識以外，學(xué)習拉丁文對學(xué)習英文可有助益？
3、拉丁文的學(xué)習，在一日投入兩小時(shí)的前提下，多久能入門(mén)？
4、單學(xué)課本，久遠了也會(huì )生疏的。不免要多讀，可現時(shí)還有拉丁文讀物出版嗎？即便有，又有多少適合初階讀者呢？
再謝。
短信就是“素不相識”網(wǎng)友交流的一個(gè)平臺，認識了，有人引薦了，客套倒是有了，有些話(huà)反倒不好說(shuō)了。如果你以為因為不認識Ipsediem, 所以Ipsediem 有可能會(huì )藏著(zhù)掖著(zhù)啥，那就大錯特錯了。把別人在較短時(shí)間內點(diǎn)撥成比自己牛的不就是普天之下最好的廣告么？Hence, thereis no potential conflict of interest on Ipsediem's side.
Ipsediem 現在/目前的確不了解你的學(xué)術(shù)背景，但只要你學(xué)Latin, 以后不乏了解的機會(huì )--it is NOT necessary inevery case to know such matters in advance.通過(guò)觀(guān)察你學(xué)習Latin的過(guò)程和在此過(guò)程中所思考的問(wèn)題，Ipsediem就可以獲得對你思維方式、特點(diǎn)、價(jià)值觀(guān)等諸多方面相當深刻的了解--knowledge or insight thus acquired, inmany cases, 決不亞于你的枕邊人從朝夕相處中獲得的感性認識。 這正是Latin 的可怕之處--there is NO WHERE to hide. 相比較而言，where you have been is not that important at all.
所謂學(xué)習Latin“最高效的方式”, Ipsediem 真的是不知道，也不想知道，因為很可能沒(méi)有最高，只有更高，而且會(huì )因人而異。Ipsediem 知道的是使用 Magoffin/Berry 一條道兒跑到黑，大約 800-1000 hrs之后可以利用參考書(shū)讀懂《高盧戰紀》的原文，西方向來(lái)把《高盧戰紀》作為 Latin 入門(mén)的標志。至于“方法”，這里有一篇：
http://www.stph.com.cn/mybbs/Announce/announce.asp?BoardID=18&ID=200845&ac=pre&rd=106988&r=104521&p=6&Upflag=1&q=3
切記切記，this is highly highly important. 看懂后遵照執行就行了。
1. 至于“動(dòng)機”，有明確動(dòng)機不如“沒(méi)有”。以羅馬人在世界史上的應有地位來(lái)看，it's simply worth knowing theirlanguage first hand and they are highly highly interesting people.
2. 潤物細無(wú)聲。你說(shuō)的好處都很實(shí)際，但有些根本性的轉變是沒(méi)法折算成 dollar sign 的：比如多一雙不同的眼睛/眼光（thehistoricalperspective）來(lái)看待世界上萬(wàn)事萬(wàn)物，讓你更全面，更客觀(guān)，更長(cháng)于事物的分類(lèi)和比較，遠離偏激、偏見(jiàn)等等，這些都如何換成錢(qián)？
3. Ipsediem 的提法是靠 800-1000 hrs 的自學(xué)能完成 Magoffin/Berry上下兩冊（課文正文約800頁(yè)，32開(kāi)的書(shū)），等于能入門(mén)。800-1000 hrs看起來(lái)很多，但即使不“浪費”在Latin上，你能保證一定能用到刀刃上么？不斷學(xué)英語(yǔ)來(lái)學(xué)英語(yǔ)看起來(lái)無(wú)比合理合法，但是否多少有一些“頭痛醫頭腳痛醫腳”的味道？等你不計較眼前得失利弊了或者對眼前利弊麻木了，懶得去盤(pán)算了，you are then EMOTIONALLY ready tostudy Latin or anything else equally worthwhile.
至于 800-1000 hrs 的波動(dòng)幅度是因為畢竟人與人之間還是有些差異，智力非智力因素都存在，還有 common sense的多寡不同，這些因素會(huì )造成差異。如果學(xué)完Magoffin前20課后，你還是覺(jué)得Latin 除了苦惱爬還是苦惱爬, 羅馬人太不可理喻了，thenyou may want to reconsider your decision to learn Latin.這20課怎么也不會(huì )花費超過(guò)100hr的，權當作義工好了，畢竟你在金錢(qián)上也沒(méi)有吃虧吧(頂多賠上一本空白筆記本，如此而已），損失的只是一點(diǎn)個(gè)人休息時(shí)間嘛。
KNEY 的入門(mén)（同樣是從0基礎開(kāi)始的），大約是9個(gè)月的時(shí)間。But again, let's be honest, KNEY的劣勢是年齡偏大，有家有小，KNEY的優(yōu)勢是 a highly motivated learner, 他平均每天投入2-3hrs,如果因為出差等原因耽誤了，連續2-3天沒(méi)摸 Magoffin/Berry， 會(huì )感到很難受，很失落。這是無(wú)法強迫的feeling. And this, perhaps, is more important than any SCIENTIFIC method ever invented for learning Latin.
盡可能地利用 Magoffin/Berry 自學(xué)，自學(xué)不懂的問(wèn)題，每個(gè)單元集中匯總之后拿來(lái)問(wèn)。提問(wèn)方式可參考 KNEY，請給出section, page and line number:
http://www.stph.com.cn/mybbs/Announce/Announce.asp?BoardID=18&ID=218732
繳租不是必須的，但如果你長(cháng)期欠租不繳，Ipsediem 頭一個(gè)懷疑你 fail 掉了/completely lost with no hope for recovery.
4. Magoffin/Berry 本身就是以大量閱讀為主的教材。網(wǎng)上免費可讀的讀物太多太多了。 比如 the Latin library:
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/
http://www.edonnelly.com/latin/
本站僅提供存儲服務(wù)，所有內容均由用戶(hù)發(fā)布，如發(fā)現有害或侵權內容，請
點(diǎn)擊舉報。
